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Suspension appeal  

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Retrie
(@retrie)
Elpy
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 10
22/11/2020 12:23 am  

Howds!

Today I got banned though I never used any form of automated or semi-automated AFK farm.  I must've failed an antibot capcha due to the fact that I was exhausted and got disctracted by a TV show in the background that i tried to listen to/watch to make the process less dull. There are several markers that comfirm my innocence: i did a hefty bit of donating for hats for myself and my friend, and nobody in his rightful mind will donate in a character while intending to bot on a server with such strict antibot rules; i logged in immediately after the incident after the game client terminated itself because i wasn't AFK; logs will show that i was chattng with friend/random dudes on the spot while exping; it is clear in the logs that the commands output is manual - the positioning behind the mobs for mortal blow procs, pots, pathfinding - everything was done manually, with different output cadence.

I humbly ask you to review my punishment - yes, i've probably failed the capcha, but i had no ill intent and wasn't abusing the rules of conduct, the sole reason was my lack of attention during tiring nightly grind.

I hope for your understanding and thank you for your work and dedication, the experience you provide is supreme (aside of sometimes annoying captcha).

Cheers

Milwaukee


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Retrie
(@retrie)
Elpy
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 10
26/11/2020 4:48 pm  

@admin

Could you please consider my application, it really bothers me that I could get banned without a possibility to appeal to the case

Best regards

Milwaukee


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CM_Nikita
(@cm_nikita)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 47
26/11/2020 5:32 pm  

Our rules about the captcha and the afk/dualbox are very clear in the website and ingame. All players are forced to pass an ingame test/tutorial explaining it. Your account failled this captcha MANY times, and after checking it we can assure that you broke the rules more than 1 and 2 times.

Your account has been permanent banned and the topic is clossed.

Since we believe in second opportunities we encourage you to create a new account and to play following the rules.

Best regards.


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Retrie
(@retrie)
Elpy
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 10
26/11/2020 6:36 pm  

@cm_nikita

@admin

Thank you for your answer, appreciated! Could you please clarify one thing for me - don't you think that a clear case of substitution of concepts may take place here? There is no such rule as "missing the capcha is prohibited" per se, capcha here is a tool, an indicator of possible violation, but not the violation itself. The corellation between a missed capcha and a violation is not ideal, there is always a dispersion in place: random people got buffed in town while afk, people like me that do the grind manually but fail the capcha because KMplayer in the overlay partially overlaps the capcha and I'm dumb enough not to fix it, et cetera.

All I want to say is, missing the capha may be the litmus test of a possible violation, but not the violation itself. The important part here is I NEVER violated the rules and did my daily grind manually, but still I am treated as a violator; it is an odd reverse Skinner box dilemma where the absence of positive feedback (doing the capcha) in the loop is punished without a context.

 

I wish I had instruments to prove my innocence in this situation.
Anyways, thank you for your time.

Milwaukee


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Wolfypre
(@admin)
GM / Super Admin Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 3314
27/11/2020 12:00 pm  
Posted by: @retrie

@cm_nikita

@admin

Thank you for your answer, appreciated! Could you please clarify one thing for me - don't you think that a clear case of substitution of concepts may take place here? There is no such rule as "missing the capcha is prohibited" per se, capcha here is a tool, an indicator of possible violation, but not the violation itself. The corellation between a missed capcha and a violation is not ideal, there is always a dispersion in place: random people got buffed in town while afk, people like me that do the grind manually but fail the capcha because KMplayer in the overlay partially overlaps the capcha and I'm dumb enough not to fix it, et cetera.

All I want to say is, missing the capha may be the litmus test of a possible violation, but not the violation itself. The important part here is I NEVER violated the rules and did my daily grind manually, but still I am treated as a violator; it is an odd reverse Skinner box dilemma where the absence of positive feedback (doing the capcha) in the loop is punished without a context.

 

I wish I had instruments to prove my innocence in this situation.
Anyways, thank you for your time.

Just to clarify, there's a difference between missing the captcha while your char is completely afk, and missing the captcha while your character continue farming and killing mobs. The first case would be an indicator of a possible violation, while the latter is a clear evidence of the violation of the rules (that was your case).

 

Best regards


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Retrie
(@retrie)
Elpy
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 10
27/11/2020 1:05 pm  
Posted by: @admin

while the latter is a clear evidence of the violation of the rules (that was your case)

Thanks for the reply,

Agreed that the assumption is justified, but how was i  farming completely afk while using pots, abilities, pvping/pking, answering the chat without any 3d party software (I bet you've checked it, sir)?

It is obligatory to agree on the thesis, that a player can be non-afk and still missing a captcha, and such cases must be processed accordingly to the context, don't you agree?

In this screenshot  you can see the reason of my suspension, an overlay player that partially covers the capcha:

I need only the upper part of the screen to target mobs and check my hp while farming, it is a ten years old habit, i've always grinded this way since 10-hour per day grinds on EU Franz. Yes, I've missed the fundamental idea that i'd often fail the capcha this way, but there is no such violation as missing the capcha in server rules page per se, bannable violations are dualboxing and AFK farming, that is most often tied to 3d party software usage, and I guess we both can agree that i used none.

My point is, my account was suspended because of my thoughtlessness (video player hid the captcha, and i was stupid enough not to think about fixing it ASAP), not because I've violated the rules of the server. I am extremely sorry for my stupidity about the capcha, but I didn't break any rule of the server, sir, not even once.

Thank you for your time.

 

Milwaukee


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Wolfypre
(@admin)
GM / Super Admin Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 3314
27/11/2020 2:57 pm  

I guess that could be an explanation of what happened.

Unfortunately, we still can't help in this case as we have no way to distinguish whether the captcha was failed because of above or due a macro loop while you were afk, all we know is that character kept farming and ignored the captcha. Otherwise everybody would use this same excuse to ask for an unban. I'm not saying you are lieing, I always like to think the best of people, but from our perspective, we have to act based on the evidences we have and we have to treat everyone the same way, and every player that ignore the captcha while the character continues farming gets banned.

I'd advise you to play in window mode (press alt + enter) and resize the window so you can see the whole screen and make sure this doesn't happen to you again.

Anyway, I feel sorry for what happened and as goodwill gesture I'd like to offer you 10 credits of balance for your new character to help you get up to speed.

Best regards


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Retrie
(@retrie)
Elpy
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 10
27/11/2020 4:18 pm  
Posted by: @admin

Anyway, I feel sorry for what happened

Thank you for your kind words, sir, it warms my heart to see that you're not indifferent towards your players.

Sadly, I don't think that I will be back playing from the scratch, I had some degree of sentimental attachment to the character and the experience itself. It was a blast to play while it lasted though. To be honest I am a bit envious (and 100% thankful) of your dedication and hard work, thats a serious sense of purpose at work here.

As a final token of appreciation I've made a donation of 50 euros on my now banned character, this server deserves all the support it can get.

To be clear - this is not a bribe of some sort, but an honest payment for the good time I had.

 

Godspeed and see you, space cowboy

Milwaukee


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Wolfypre
(@admin)
GM / Super Admin Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 3314
27/11/2020 4:57 pm  

@retrie

I honestly think you could be telling the truth in this case, but we always try to be fair and treat everyone in the same way.

This is by far the worse part of running a server as, unlike many people claim, we don't enjoy at all banning players, specially in cases that don't strike as purposed cheaters.

You can have a look at this forum section and will notice that "everybody is innocent" (I can safely assure that 99% aren't). Overtime, we developed some kind of immunity / insensitiveness towards player's appeals and sometimes we may be seem rude, but we are just trying to do our best to enforce the rules with the resources and evidences we have.

Thank you for your donation and your kind words, it's very appreciated.

We wish you all the best and, if you ever change your mind, our doors will always be open.

Best regards


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minwas3
(@minwas3)
Bandit
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 57
28/11/2020 10:49 am  

@admin

Good morning. I would just like to say my opinion. Even in real life, in a court when there is not enough evidence for the guilt of the accused, he is acquitted. What I mean is that it is a pity and unfair in a game, .... we are talking about joy, pleasure, dedication of time, but also money in some cases, the player to lose what he has created. The second opportunity you offer to start from the beginning is not an opportunity. Opportunity is to return the account with a penalty of perhaps a week ban account and if the mistake is repeated, then get the final ban. These are not many cases, ... very few and will not harm the server if treated with mild penalties. After my own ban account, I have been to jail with my other players once, but also sometimes I have failed when the OK or CANCEL test or the option to add numbers is displayed, because there are times when the test appears when I aim at monsters and pressing it happens involuntarily in the test and I keep killing monsters. What does this mean?? Will I ban in the future because system failures have been recorded? He assured me that this will not happen because you are checking if there is a program. I ask the following question because I do not know about bot programming. Is it possible without putting commands on the skill bar, without having a bot program in the computer memory, can the device play on its own and kill monsters ??? Honestly if that exists, ..... I will go crazy, .... and I will start to believe that in the future there will come a time when I will be in Milwaukee position for chances and not proofs. Please give me an answer .......................................... ............... PS Without wanting to interfere in your decisions, just always with good intentions, I make this proposal to you for a milder punishment in some special cases. Think about it, the server will not lose from this, .... on the contrary it will gain even more. Always with appreciation and respect for the amazing work, and at best server 🙂


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Wolfypre
(@admin)
GM / Super Admin Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 3314
28/11/2020 5:10 pm  
Posted by: @minwas3

@admin

Good morning. I would just like to say my opinion. Even in real life, in a court when there is not enough evidence for the guilt of the accused, he is acquitted. What I mean is that it is a pity and unfair in a game, .... we are talking about joy, pleasure, dedication of time, but also money in some cases, the player to lose what he has created. The second opportunity you offer to start from the beginning is not an opportunity. Opportunity is to return the account with a penalty of perhaps a week ban account and if the mistake is repeated, then get the final ban. These are not many cases, ... very few and will not harm the server if treated with mild penalties. After my own ban account, I have been to jail with my other players once, but also sometimes I have failed when the OK or CANCEL test or the option to add numbers is displayed, because there are times when the test appears when I aim at monsters and pressing it happens involuntarily in the test and I keep killing monsters. What does this mean?? Will I ban in the future because system failures have been recorded? He assured me that this will not happen because you are checking if there is a program. I ask the following question because I do not know about bot programming. Is it possible without putting commands on the skill bar, without having a bot program in the computer memory, can the device play on its own and kill monsters ??? Honestly if that exists, ..... I will go crazy, .... and I will start to believe that in the future there will come a time when I will be in Milwaukee position for chances and not proofs. Please give me an answer .......................................... ............... PS Without wanting to interfere in your decisions, just always with good intentions, I make this proposal to you for a milder punishment in some special cases. Think about it, the server will not lose from this, .... on the contrary it will gain even more. Always with appreciation and respect for the amazing work, and at best server 🙂

Dear @minwas3

I have to admit you have a point here, this is not like a case where we know Adrenaline was used or something like that. I'll discuss it with the staff.

 

Best regards


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Retrie
(@retrie)
Elpy
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 10
20/01/2021 1:09 pm  

@admin

Howds, friend

Here I am, thinking about playing reborn again, the overall user experience is just too good ❤️

Please tell me if I should create a new account, or you've discussed my case with the team and I can be unbanned, since it was two months of a suspension already

 

Best regards,

 

 

Milwaukee


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minwas3
(@minwas3)
Bandit
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 57
24/01/2021 7:32 am  

Good morning. After so long I thought the account was given back. I am saddened by the fact that we do not have an answer for any decision here. I go back to an injustice of my own in which I lost my own account without any evidence of program use. However, my treatment and conversation with Wolfypre was very good, so I left the injustice that happened in the past, and continued on the server. But now I am thinking again, .... it is not possible to lose an account without there being proof from the controller for the use of programs. I am anxiously awaiting the decision of the server managers for your account. I am waiting because it concerns me directly, but I believe it concerns every player who plays without programs and may in the future lose his account for no reason, or due to some misfortune of the moment. Evidence is not proof, and I have written again that, even in real life, no court finds the accused guilty for life imprisonment when there is no evidence, let alone here where we play for pleasure. It is unacceptable for players who are pure in the game to feel fear and insecurity. Personally, this is how I feel now, ... unless something changes. I wait, and I hope that those in charge will understand the difference between the user of programs with a receipt, and the one who left the suspicion for some random reason.


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peacedeath
(@peacedeath)
Newbie
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 4
24/01/2021 9:13 am  

Dear Admin Team,

 

Give this guy a chance to return here. I'm pretty sure he just accidentally skipped the captcha, i'm saying so because i had the same situations, it's really inconvenient  this  approach however i do understand it's security reasons.

 


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minwas3
(@minwas3)
Bandit
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 57
24/01/2021 9:26 am  

A correction in the text above, .... << The indication is not a proof >>. I use the translation and some are translated differently into English. Thanks.


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